Turbotax, Turbotax, Turbotax

Here is truly the last post on my TurboTax issue...

I tried one last time to convince them that their program led me down the incorrect path, but they trotted out their same excuse that I must be dumb as a brick to have committed the error I committed. Apparently no other users ever have a problem with TurboTax...

Did I say they were professional in their response? I take that back as well. Essentially, the response was professional in the use of grammar, etc., but essentially calling your customers stupid is far from professional.

I'm too tired to keep fighting a charge of a few hundred dollars, and every new response from Anita just gets my blood boiling again.

Here is my bottom line to everyone out there in blog-land. I STRONGLY advise not to use TurboTax to do your tax preparation. In my opinion, they do not stand behind their user interface at all and will blame you for any error in using their product. I will be going back to using H&R TaxCut. It may not look as pretty as TurboTax, but it always did the job RIGHT.

P.S. - To Bob Meighan: I have deleted all of your comments and will continue to remove your comments in the future. While I can not do anything to make your company repay the money I lost, I am under no obligation to give you space on my website to push your side of the story. If you wish to stay and contribute to the weight loss discussion, please do so. From what I can gather though, your paid job is to seek out negative TurboTax comments on the web and attempt to refute them. I'm pretty sure this must be a full time job that hopefully pays overtime for you.

Poking the bear...

Did I say I was done talking about the tax issue? Well our good friend Bob Meighan, a VP over at TurboTax, keeps leaving me comments that supposedly prove I am in the wrong on this issue.

So, instead of letting this lie, I feel compelled to respond yet again to Bob and the folks at TurboTax. On the advice of Customer Service Rep Anita and VP Bob, I actually went into my current 2006 return and attempted to add a bogus W2 to see what would happen...

First off, Bob is correct on one point. TurboTax doesn't ask you to fill in the SS# by W2. Instead it asks who to associate with each W2 at the beginning of entry. I probably incorrectly chose myself for both W2's. Therefore, it was not incorrectly viewing 2 different SS#s as one person. Score one for Bob...

But after I enter in another bogus W2 on my 2006 return and associate it with me, here is the screen that pops up:

I don't claim to be a tax guy. That's why I pay TurboTax $50 to do it for me. If I knew the intricacies of social security witholding and that you only have to pay up to a certain point and that this applies to each individual filing on a joint return, I WOULD HAVE DONE THE DAMN RETURN MYSELF! But I don't know these things and that is why I relied on TurboTax to ask the right questions in order to fill out the return properly.

So when TurboTax tells me that my company may have withheld too much SS tax, I would believe them. TurboTax only asks that I check to make sure the numbers on the W2 I am entering match what they have on the screen. I DID THAT AND THEY MATCHED! At no point did they question whether I chose the correct person for the W2. So I went forward believing that I indeed paid too much in SS tax and was entitled to a refund. What reason would I have to think otherwise?

BTW, Bob (if you're still listening)...no need to send me software...I'm pretty confident it will only confirm what I am stating above.

Bottom Line (for me...again): TurboTax should flagged this error and instructed me how to fix. The point of the software is to make accurate tax preparation an easy process. I'll admit TurboTax is an easy process but I'd question the accuracy piece.

Bonus: I'm going to label all of these posts as "My TurboTax / IRS Rant" so that these posts do not get lost in time.

Bonus #2: Bob states the following in the comments section:

"Just to reiterate what Anita already stated, if you entered one or more W-2s for the same spouse that exceeded the limits above, TurboTax flags you with a warning and error flag. The warning allows you to change the "ownership" of the W-2 to either spouse."

My response...see the actual screen print above...you are incorrect.

It's Official...I HATE TURBOTAX

I won't bore you with the long drawn out letters back and forthat this point , but "Anita" essentially restated the error was mine. It didn't matter if I felt TurboTax's software should automatically flag an error as obvious as the one I made or that Turbotax would even allow me to claim two different social security numbers as my own.

You would think that in this case...just to be consumer friendly...they would throw me some sort of bone...

But thier response (in the most professional way possible) was to say, "We're sorry your so ignorant as to fill out such an easy question incorrectly. We hope you use our product again!"

My response (in the most professional way possible) was to let them know I will never use thier product again and will let everyone know that I think thier product and thier accuracy guarantee stinks! I also let them know that my wife and I are planning to purchase personal finance software in the very near future (that's what happens when you have to pay thousands of unforseen dollars to the IRS) and that we will not be choosing Quicken (brought to you be the same company that produces TurboTax).

Can you feel my anger coming through on this post right now?

Where are you Bob Meighan? Looking for your response in the comments section.

Tax saga continued...

For those interested, here TurboTax's response to my request that they pick:

I received your letter regarding our Accurate Calculations Guarantee, and have reviewed your request for reimbursement for interest and/or penalties paid to the IRS for 2005.I have determined that TurboTax Software did perform the calculation correctly and am unable to approve your claim. The basis for coming to this decision is as follows:When you choose to enter a W-2 in the program,you come first to a screen titled “Tell Us About Your Wage Income.” If you are filing jointly with a spouse, that screen contains three buttons from which you must choose. One has the taxpayer’s name on it, another has the spouse’s name, and the third says to skip the W-2 entry. You cannot progress beyond this pointto enter a W-2 without making a selection here. If you make the correct selection, that is, if you correctly identify the person to whom that W-2 belongs, then the social security tax from that W-2 will accrue to that person. If you accidentally make the wrong selection, and choose the same owner for W-2s that belong to different spouses, then all the social security tax withheld accrues to only one spouse and that person appears to have too much social security withheld. The apparently excess amount appears on your 1040 as “Excess social security withheld” and increases your refund or decreases the tax due.If this error occurs, you are given the opportunity to make corrections. After entering the W-2s, a screen appears saying that one individual may have paid too much social security, with the relevant information appearing below for you to review and correct.If you use the CD version of the product, whether an actual CD or downloaded CD, you can verify this error by opening your return and choosing Continue as though you were going to work on your data again. Then, along the top of the TurboTax screen, there is a narrow grey menu bar that starts with the words “File…Edit…View…Forms…. Select the word Forms, then Show My Return from the dropdown menu. You will see a list of all the forms used to create your return. Double click on the Form W-2 and W-2G Summary to open it. If you see if too much income showing in the column for one spouse, that is the cause of your excess social security.If you used the online version, you can duplicate the error by starting a fake return in the current online version. When you enter W-2s, make the erroneous spouse selection as described above and see that all social security is then attributed to only one spouse.Keeping our customers loyal is important to us. If you have further questions, or feel that I have reached this conclusion in error, please feel free to contact me by sending an e-mail to TaxAnalysts@intuit.com and typing “Attn: xxx” in the subject line. Please also include your Reference # xxxx in your message.

And here is my response to them:

Anita,

Here are my comments to your conclusion:

-> Since I used the online version, I can not go back and
verify what was entered back in 2005. Your online version only allows
users to go back and check specific entries for the latest year. You note
that I should use the current version to prove that TurboTax asks the
appropriate question, but how do I know that this latest version is exactly the
same as the version used back in February 2006?

-> Even if I take TurboTax’s word on this, can you please explain any situation where I would claim a W-2 return with a different social security number as my own income? This is poor programming at best that only can lead to the error you claim I made. While I can’t go back and prove it, I do not remember TurboTax ever raising a flag indicating a potential error on my part. It is my contention, that while I may have ultimately checked the incorrect box, that poor programming led me down this path. Isn’t the purpose of your software to make it easy for the consumer to fill out a correct tax return? Giving the consumer the choice of selecting a W-2 with another person’s SS# as his / her own income serves no other purpose than to cause confusion and errors in my estimation.

For a few years prior to using your software, I was using HR Tax-cut Online. I actually switched to your software due to its better interface and my impression that it captured more information in order to get a better refund. I was actually excited when TurboTax actually reported a much higher refund than what I received using Tax-Cut. Now, your higher refund resulted in me not only having to pay back taxes (which is a hardship that I didn’t budget for this year), I have to pay an additional $300+ in interest and penalties.

I have already voiced my displeasure publicly on this issue through word of mouth to friends and family and through a personal weblog that generates x page views monthly. I was hoping to follow up this story by telling friends and family (and web traffic) how TurboTax did the right thing in the end. As things stand right now, I can only say that TurboTax did not do the right thing by the consumer and I would
advise anyone against using your services in the future with my story as the cautionary tale.

Bottom Line: I disagree with your review of my request. TurboTax software should not even ask whether W-2 forms with two different Social Security #s should be counted under 1 person. To hold me responsible for accidentally checking the incorrect box for a question that shouldn’t be asked in the first place is unfair. I hope you will reconsider reimbursing me for the interest and penalty charges I have already paid to the IRS.

And now you can vote on who is right and who is wrong! Be the judge, jury, but not the executioner (that's the IRS's job):

Here's a shocker...

...I hate the IRS! (And I'm not too fond of TurboTax either these days)

Long story short...Two years ago, after doing my tax return with TurboTax, I recieved a larger than normal tax return. At the time, I thought nothing of it. We usually got decent refunds each year and while this was larger, I thought it was mainly due to the larger salaries my wife and I were earning. Well, my refund went back down to normal levels and now I find out why...Turbotax took both my wife's income and my income and counted it all as mine. Then it deduced that I paid too much in social security as a result and refunded it back to me. So now I get a letter asking me to pay back the refund I took in error back in March 2006 PLUS Interest on said refund PLUS a "Late Payment Penalty" for not paying it back sooner (how was I supposed to pay it back sooner when I NEVER KNEW I HAD TO PAY IT BACK UNTIL THIS MONTH!)

My tax friend said I should call the friendly folks at the IRS to explain to them my error and to ask them if they would consider removing the interest and late payment penalties and I would gladly pay the back taxes I obviously owed. What a painful experience!

First, the IRS has a telephone prompt system from the 1980's...It took me a good 10 minutes to weave my way through the various prompts to reach a live person. It was almost like they were hoping I would give up trying to speak to a live person and just pay thier extortion money.

Second, once I got through the prompts, I was put into a Musak queue that lasted an additional 25 minutes "while I waited for the next available agent". Once again, they seemed to want me to give up.

Now I get to speak to a live agent after waiting a good 1/2 hour plus. Already fired up, I start to explain my plight (My defense being, "I relied on TurboTax and it screwed me"). I explained how a CPA friend confirmed the IRS was right and I was ready to pay the back taxes but thought they could help out on the interest and penalty portion. The helpful agent explains that I will have to fill out one form to request abatement on the interest (Form 843) and send a seperate letter requesting the removal of a penalty. She also said to pay the full amount (including interest and penalties) and ask for the refund later, so I do not accrue any further penalties and interest while they decide whether they should grant my requests...

I have no problem paying the backtaxes. That was, in essence, my fault. And if it comes down to it, I will pay the interest (although I'm going after TurboTax to pick that up in the end...it was thier error that resulted in the Fed not getting thier money on time). But I'll be damned if anyone is going to pay the government for assessing a late payment penalty when it was they who never notified me (until this month) that I was late in getting them thier money...

And people wonder why government gets a bad name...